AMERICAN PRIDE

**SHATOUSHKA** · September 12th, 2002, 02:39 AM

i'm tired of all the complaining and false
sympathy directed toward the event surrounding
september 11th, 2001.

what happened to america on that day shook
our lives... clearly.
the so-called 'terrorist' attack(s) made
famous are nothing more than stimuli for
the self-righteous.
and boy, aren't they milking it.

a few boards on HB ... very few... have
actually attempted to put this day into
perspective.
they see a glory-hungry, militant president
using this MINOR catastrophe as passage
to a new world order...

asside from that, these boards seem to know,
or at least tout, the hypocrisy of this
false 'patriotism'.

america is perhaps, without a doubt, the
biggest terrorist this world has ever seen.
on august 6th and 9th, 1945, america displayed
the biggest act of terrorism in human history.

in the first few weeks after the bomb was
dropped on hiroshima, 130,000 unsuspecting
men, women, and children civilians died.
in nagasaki, the bomb claimed 70,000 victim
deaths. over the next five years, a combined
total of 120,000 additional dead were
added to those numbers.

"Little 8 year old Matsuo had been happy that morning. Six older boys had allowed him to join in their game of hide and seek. Matsuo was in the centre of the yard trying to spot the others hiding. When the bomb exploded he neither heard nor felt anything when the heat rays focused on him and obliterated him. The other boys, huddling in gullies or crouching behind walls were untouched. They crept from their hiding places and walked over to where the remains of little Matsuo's body lay on the ground. In horrified silence they stared at each other. They were the lucky ones, or so they thought. But the invisible killer was at work. Within one week, three of the boys would be dead from radiation."

some people like to believe that the reason
both bombs were dropped was to end the
tensions between the US and its rivals of
(already confrontational) japan and the
threat of future conflict with russia.

why would the US detonate two bombs in the
middle of civilian territories?

"The bomb dropped on Hiroshima contained Uranium, the one used on Nagasaki contained Plutonium. Part of the reason for dropping two bombs was because the Americans wanted to see the effect of both designs.
The targest chosen were cities which had not already been badly bombed. The Americans wanted to be able to see quite how destructive the atom bomb was. It was seen as an "experiment". For this reason they chose targets where there were large numbers of buildings, ie houses, which could be destroyed."

the forum picture portrays such insolence.
the boy in the pic was aproximately 600-1000 meters
from the bomb impact center.
he is completely ash.

the death toll of the september 11th attack
is nothing to shy away from. however, it
certainly deserves no recognition to a
country as blasphemous and arrogant as this
country i am sitting in.

people are currently pissing and moaning
about the WTC and other BS atrocities that
happened on september 11th.
the BS empathy shown towards those that died
during this crisis is revolting.
i do not mock those that died in this tragedy.
i include those 3,000 victims with the
victims of 1945, and all other vicitims
created under the guize of progress and advancement.

however, i will not stand and bow my head
to this country for the blatant hypocrisy
it is showing.
this country isn't deserved of my patriotism.
i am far from being a nationalist...
ESPECIALLY a prompted nationalism based
upon urgings from the media, the communities,
the memories....

i spit upon this hypocrisy.
how RUDE of us to demand world attention
to this tragedy... no doubt japan sits
in the shadows and weeps for its forgotten
THOUSANDS.
how dare we be so crude.

while everyone is busy feeling good about
themselves because they have generated
a few tears on this day...
i will reflect on the image of the boy above,
knowing that he has NOW died in vain.

we are a race of being that doesn't even deserve to live...

TO THE MEMORY OF THOSE THAT DIED AT
HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI -- YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FORGOTTEN

lg07?bcAp5p9ABcTl0uNn

**SHATOUSHKA** · September 12th, 2002, 07:03 PM

i suppose this thread was so fucking humbling
no one had the nuts to post against it.

... good ...

**Hannibal** · September 13th, 2002, 01:08 PM

Actually, I found this thread to be so arrogant, pompous, and stupid, that I really didn't want to reply to such stupidity to be honest.
This thread is retarded. Plain and simple.

TastinGood · September 13th, 2002, 02:58 PM

[img]eek.gif[/img]

**SHATOUSHKA** · September 13th, 2002, 06:30 PM

how so, hanny?

**Trampis** · September 14th, 2002, 04:20 AM

You said.."People are currently pissing and moaning about the wtc and other bs atrocities that happened on Sep.11"...

BS atrocities?Thats Bullshit to you?Is it not an attrocity to willingly fly a plane into a building and try to kill thousands of people??

You complain about people in this country having fake patriotism and empathy for the 9-11 dead.

Well I think your sympathy for those that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is also fake and "fashonible".Its a fake way of saying your anti establishment and drawing attention to yourself for something that you really havent thought out.Get over yourself!Try to have sincere thoughts instead of trying to come up with ways of being antiestablishment!

Talk to those who were alive during ww2!They will tell you about losing family members and the unity,sincere not fashonable,that they had.

**SHATOUSHKA** · September 14th, 2002, 06:32 AM

hmmm...

first let me say-- GREAT POSTS, TRAMPIS!
i like how you have defended your convictions
so passionately. i admire that in any person.
i am being COMPLETELY honest when i say that. =)

now, i will admit that when i posted my initial
thread post, i was writing under passions myself.
i will attempt to compound my thoughts and the
issues that you pointed out, the best that i can.
i realize that this 'explainatory' post will prolly
be long as hell, but i think everyone is curious
of the items you mentioned, too.
since i absolutely cannot read the QUOTING UBB,
i'll mark your quotes with yellow text, and answer
in the typical blue text.
****************************************

I feel bad for those people on those flights that KNEW they were going to die.

the common concensus states that EVERYONE will die.
this is not a mockery sentence, merely pointing
out that i think the root of the 'sympathy' lies
in the fact that almost everyone wishes to have
a peaceful death. the passengers/victims on the flights,
even those trapped or escaping the WTC/pentagon
had no clue of their demise.
placing yourself in that scenario, the thought
of the possibility of death is higher, sure.
but no one REALLY knows they are about to die.
i will account that the passengers of the hijacked
plane prolly knew of their coming deaths merely
minutes before it actually happened.

Do you think people dont feel sorrow when they think of others that died on that day?

when you examine your sorrow, what do you see
as the root of it? surely death, itself isn't
the cause, because we all die.
it must be something more than just the thought
of death. perhaps, as i stated before, it is
the uncomfortable thought of death in pain or
fear that creates the sorrow.
maybe, the sorrow has nothing to do with the
people that have died... maybe its the rude
awakening that one day, you too will die... and
you are instantly put to question your own death,
and because of it, the tremendous suffering
that will cause your family and loved ones.
i'm not sure.
merely offering thoughts on it.
maybe if i know the root of the 'sorrow', i could
understand the situation.

Why are they"so-called terrorist attacks"?-What do YOU call them?

WWW.DICTIONARY.COM
main definition of 'terrorism' is:

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

the reason why i termed the act as 'so called'
terrorism is because in order for it to truly
be 'terrorism', the act would have had to been
fulfilled, that is, we would have had to been
intimidated and/or coerced by the fear that the
perpetrators planned. this failed.
because they failed in their mission, they are
non-deserved of the term 'terrorist'.
i am not afraid of them. i was not coerced into
their will.
were you?

He's responding to what happened!I fail to see the glory in it.As far as millitant,whats he supposed to do?Invite Ossama over for a Bar B que to talk things over?
I dont know about you,but Im glad our president is taking this seriously and doesnt come on tv telling me "you know this is relativly minor if you think about it"

er.... what exactly has been accomplished?
have we found all of the members of the 'terrorist'
party? have we brought them before a UN trial?
has anything REALLY been done?
sure it all looks good on TV and in the papers,
but surely someone can see that we are doing nothing.
this was the same reaction by GWB during the
crisis with saddam.
we busted on over there, sat around for COUNTLESS
months, raised social morale... everyone thought
"yeah! we're gonna kill saddam!"

that never happened.
NOTHING EVER HAPPENED!!!!
just like now...

the only difference is, our president seems to
think he has a strong-hold on world power, as if
he carries the long-arm of the law under his
belt. the total 'terrorist' GESTAPO party created
by the anti-terrorism movement is pompus.
we loose a few thousand civilians and suddenly
that gives us the right to push around other
countries??

I know its minor,in that millions of people didnt die,but its major because this sort of thing has never happened on US soil to this degree before.And we dont ever want this to happen again so we take it seriously.
"New world order"???-There is no "new world order",we've been the best,most strongest country for well over a hundred years now.Be proud,not ashamed that you live here.

this is my point. we are arrogant.
why can't we loose a few thousand????
hundreds of 3rd world countries are basically
STARVING to death. they loose thousands everyday
to something COMPLETELY avoidable. and yet, we
casually do nothing for that cause.

i am not sure that we are the best country.
we are a sapling growing amongst a forest of
thousand-year old trees.

And as far as this droping nuclear bombs on Japan goes.
Good God,did you just call that a "terrorist act"?I cant even comprehend how you came up with that statement.

i revert to this link ---> H/N (click)

Just imagine,if you've been fighting for 5 damn years,fighting against people who will die,kill themselves to kill you!And you have a way to end this horrid war in a fell swoop.To strike a blow so severe it makes your enimy stand still and take notice.Dropping those bombs was the best thing that could have ever happened.You contend those people were innocent.They were supporting a government that went to war against us,they're not innocent.Its war,"wars hell" as Sherman said and thats the sad truth.

good gawd, what a horrible thing to say.
the taliban thought the same of the US... funny.

You know,my fuking uncle was "innocent"too till he got killed by the Japanese in WW2.Now hes buried on some fuking island in the south Pacific.Why dont you put a picture of his mangled dead body on your board?

was your uncle defending the US in the military?
if he wasn't, then i certainly understand the
comparison to those i have pictured -- those
that had no control over their government, their
lives.
it is arrogant to be born and raised in a country
fraught with freedoms unknown by foreign lands
and then to condescend those lands and their ways.
japan, at the time (and even now), was ruled in
a way you are unfamiliar. they have a strong
religious fervor to their policies and behaviors,
something americans do not, because we are
content on being diverse.

although, for the moment, i will conceed. i'm
sure the little boy of ash in the forum pic
was completely concious of his position in the
grand scheme of political things and he probably
would have shot you rather than look at you.
you are right... they deserved it. isfs

Is it not an attrocity to willingly fly a plane into a building and try to kill thousands of people??

no. it is a marvel.
and anything similar to it is also a marvel.
to be so afraid of life that you are that wrapped
up in a cause, religious or otherwise, that you
would sacrifice your own finite life due to a
delusion of 'better things' is fucking amazing.

to actively choose to end your life, regardless
of other victims, is perhaps the single-most
astounding behavior a human can do.
i happen to appreciate my life, and in doing so,
i am aware that it is finite and limited.
there is no friggin way i'm going to shorten
my life by suicide, especailly due to delusion.
that deserves to be respected.

Its a fake way of saying your anti establishment...

i'm not sure why you would say that it is 'fake'.
i guess i could just flat out admit that i am
anti-establishment. that saves time.
regardless, my 'fakeness'is different than yours
in that, as mentioned above, i respect the
awesomeness of finiteness... and in doing so,
do not seek reparations for anothers death.
that is hyprocritical.

...and drawing attention to yourself for something that you really havent thought out.Get over yourself!

how is it that i am drawing attention to myself
for posting something i think on my own board?
regardless of that, why should i not draw
attention to myself period? am i to be individual
or fall in line? aye. such is the constant
contradiction of being american.
and what exactly haven't i thought out?
sure i am giving loose answers in this post,
but merely to answer your posts in a reasonable
fashion while attempting to prevent this topic
from ending up in philosophy (however i think
it is).
i would be more than happy to expound on anything
you (or anyone else) would like. if it doesn't
make sense, just ask. =)

Try to have sincere thoughts instead of trying to come up with ways of being antiestablishment!

this confuses me. if i mention something that
happens to be interpreted as 'anti-establishment'
that means i am not sincere?
hmmmm....
where's a cross around when you need one, eh?

Talk to those who were alive during ww2!They will tell you about losing family members and the unity,sincere not fashonable,that they had.

the fact that a person survives a war does not
make their loss or sincerity any more valuable
or significant than those that haven't served.
loss is loss. sincerity is sincerity.

the point i was making was that most of the
people claiming 'emotion' on september 11th, 2002
never even KNEW the victims. what exactly is
the loss of????
again, this goes back to defining your 'sorrow'.
exactly from where does it stem?

it is not wrong to question the motives of these
emotions. secondly, i should not be berated for
doing so.
people tend to think that i am, without a doubt,
completely inhuman when it comes to basic human
feeling. perhaps this is so.
but i would more willingly argue that i am not
exactly 'inhuman'... but moreso less base. i
tend to rise above the basic appetitive prompts
because i feel that they are premature and
thoughtless.

i feel that people are more complex than merely
bacterium responding to stimuli in a petrie dish.

if that causes anger in the masses, so be it.
this will only prove my statement.

it is wrong to shroud yourself in thoughts and
convictions without sound judgment (IMO). therefore,
call me what you will, i still see the bombings
of hiroshima and nagasaki as criminal and
terrorism notwithstanding.
to use those cities as places of military experimentation
is abhorently crude.

**Beta-Decay** · September 14th, 2002, 07:00 AM

The events of last september 11th were sad for most Americans and many others in the world. However, were it not for the media frenzy, most people would not be affected as much as they would have you believe, methinks.
Over here, nothing really changed that much. There was the surge in 'patriotism' for a while. Of course, the patriotism can be reduced to flying American flags all over and burning Islamic businesses.
The events have become an excuse for those who wish power to gain more. Bush will use this to become re-elected. There are almost no questions in my mind that Bush will win by an incredible amount because he led the 'War on terrorsm.' The Xian leaders have used this to show how evil other religions are. There was an incredible surge in 'spirituality,' everyone thanked their forgotten gods that they and there loved ones were safe and they hoped that those that did would be in heaven.

Going to end this now, the drugs are finally putting me to sleep. I will write more later.